4.3L Swap FAQ V2.0

[Lowtorious]

This second verison of this thread. You'll find that I have attemped to organize everything and cut out the fat. There was alot of non-related chit chat in the old thread that I'd like eliminate from this one. PLEASE PM ME your final cost and a rough break down of your swap along with any links or pics of your swap and/or any suggestions you have to improving the 4.3L swap info.
Thanks.

PM format something like this:

-Your Vehicle Generation (example - 1st Gen truck, 2nd Gen 4Runner...etc)
-Year of motor used and FI style (example - '98 CSFI/Vortec)
-Trasmission used in swap (example - TH350)
-Wiring (purchased harness, reworked OEM harness, computer mods...etc)
-Motor mounts
-Adapters
-Radiator
-Power Steering line(s)
-Cost (self explanitory)

I'd also appreciate it if you PMd me tech info so I can throw it in the proper sections. This will keep the thread from becoming too long like the last.

Memeber Swap Info & General Comments

CPI Swaps
FIREBALL
'90 4Runner
'93 CPI Vortec-$850
Toyota R150 5spd trans
Howell wiring harness-$350
Custom/stock chevy motor mounts
AA Bell housing-$450
Stock toyota V6 radiator
Cost approx $2500-$3000

Kevins4runner
1986 Toyota 4-Runner SAS
Donor : 1992 Chevy S-10 with CPI and 700R4 $500
Adapter from inchworm $600
Tranny shop to install tailshaft $200
Stock Chevy S-10 radiator $0
Custum Motor mounts $0
VSS from downey $130
Reworked Stock Harness $0
B&M Shifter $120
Stock Manifolds $0
Electric Pump Had from Supra $0
GM pump lines with Toyota end.
2" Body lift I already had from previous Supra Motor.
I put the motor up high to clear Hydro-steer ram.

TBI SWAPS
Crash
-1st Gen p/u ('82)
-'93 TBI
-SM465
-Owner re-worked OEM harness
-Owner fab'd MMs
-Toyota diesel rad
-OTT SM465/Toy t-case adpater
-3" body lift, and still beat the piss outa the firewall to get the shifter to clear the heater case
-Sanderson headers
-custom york mount (using r4 mount)
-cost, who cares,lol enough

ChrisF
-1st Gen p/u ('80)
-'89 TBI
-TH350
-Owner re-worked OEM harness
-NWOR MMs
-Chevy rad off Ebay
-AA TH350/Toy t-case adapter
-Owner fab'd exhaust
-No BL
-Total Cost: $1600 (Most items purchased off E-bay)

ROKTOY - Jay Kopycinski
-2nd gen p/u ('85)
-'88 TBI
-700r4
-Howell Harness
-Owner fabb'd MMs (steel plate to GM rubber mounts)
-AA V8 Radiator
-AA 700r4/Toy t-case adapter
- $$ ??

Rockota
-’86 p/u
-’89 TBI
-R-150F 5-speed
-Owner purchased harness
- ??
-AA Radiator
-Marlin t-case adapter

lessee... i bought an 89 Astro for $500...
Bellhousing - came w/ truck... ~$350 (?)
Flywheel - $300
FJ-40 slave - $75
Clutch - $200
Motormounts - $30
AA radiator - $350
Wiring harness - $400
Speed Sensor Delete chip - $75
Full engine rebbuild/balance/blueprint - $1250
GM fuel pump (modified to fit inside toyota tank) - $40
Fuel lines - $25
GM Tubular manifolds - $150
O2 Sensor - $75(?)
Exhaust - $220 - headers back
Starter/alternator/tuneup parts/belt - $250 est.
$4000...


Wazzobie
-'86 4Runner
-'94 TBI
-TH350 trans
-Initially AA MMs (but they failed, <1 year); replaced with owner fab'd MMs
-AA TH350/Toy T-case adapter, VSS hardware
-22R rad initially used (failed); replaced with 22RE rad (special hose routing
required)
-Power steering: GM/Toyota adapted hose
-Body lift required (3" with AA mounts, possibly could be lessened to 1.5" - 2" with owner fab'd mounts)

TOY2
-84 toy pickup
-92 tbi engine $0 (lucky bastard)
-95 4L60E auto tranny - $200 (auto shifter additonal $125)
-Howell harness, ECM out of same truck as tranny(no work done to ECM)
$400 w/$200 refund (Harness problems)
-VSS - $80
-AA motor mounts - $120
-AA adapter $375
-Toy V6 radiator
-GM power steering lines(cut GM flare off and put toy nut on and reflared)
-Stock toy EFI fuel pump
-Exhaust: headers $0
exaust $200
-Misc: hoses,belts,ect... $150
-Total: $1450

Ferg
-1st Frame w/ 2nd gen body ('80 SB frame w/ ‘85Xtra Cab) - $1100
-'92 TBI (from 4WD S-10) - $600.00
-'85 W56 Tranny + ’85 Toyota t-case - $200.00
('85 Camaro 153 tooth flywheel - dealer ~$250.00 new)
(Reduction type starter, less headaches, lighter)
(L/C 3/4" slave cylinder)
-Howell harness - get the long one
-NWOR MMs (Not recommended) - fit engine, fit frame - just not at the same time
-A/A bellhousing/clutch - Don't remember
-'83? Toy diesel radiator - $25.00
(Works pretty well, but I'm looking for something better that will fit easy)
-GM pwr steering lines w/Toy fitting
-A/A headers won't fit w/std trans - fork and clutch hose need the same space
Much work here(no-no)
(Used three (3) Astro van tubular headers to make manifolds)
-VSS came from Downey/Jags that run. Cpu fires up the 'Check Engine' light without it.
--4.10 gears w/33s
--Unit is daily driver gets 17-18mpg. Gobs of power and lots of grunt--

84Runner
-'89 chevy TBI engine complete
-700R4 trans
-A/A TC adapter
-A/A 4 core rad. w/ trans cooler
-Downey VSS
-A/A headers
-Downey V6 exhaust, (cat, muffler)

Toylet
-'86 std. cab turbo truck soon to be converted to extracab
-'93 CPI "early Vortec"
-Turbo 350 (soon to be 700r4)
-Painless harness
-'95 ecm out of Safari
-Advanced Adapts radiator
-NWOR motor mounts
-stock cast iron manifolds
-No body lift, but engine moved 1" forward
-B&M shifter
-Gm CPI fuel pump (65+ psi) mounts right into the stock Toyota fuel pump location.
-I didn't have the serp. belt setup, so I went to standard v-belt. I now have serp. belt set up, so I will upgrade soon
-If I was to do anything different, I would go to TBI. CPI 4.3 don't like too much in performance mods. Also, the injector's pressure regulator can rupture inside motor and fill motor with fuel... Had that happen once. Been beating the truck for 4+ years now without a glitch. Other then that, I really love the power and drivability.

FrankenToy
Rig = '81 mini short bed
donor = '90 POS-10 Blazer 4.3L TBI w/std gearbox (250,000 miles on it)
Tranny = dumped the L52 (no removable bell housing) in favor of a R150F (2nd gen, NOT 3rd gen). The R151F would have been a better choice (no adapter needed for the 4 cyl t-case).
23 spline t-case input shaft and 4 cyl t-case adapter kit = Marlin
Bell housing = AA
Clutch, pressure plate, disc, 153t flywheel, pilot bearing = AA
Harness = Painless
Radiator = custom 1000hp rad from AA
Fan = 16" Be-Cool hi-perf electric (JEGS)
Motor mounts = at first used Downeys bolt-ons. They bent (garbage) and went to AA marine mounts.
Exhaust = stock iron manifolds
Fuel pump = Downey TBI pump (loud as hell, but bulletproof)
VSS = Downey TBI unit (needed the 10" LC speedo cable extension, from Toy dealer)
Power steering fitting = Downey kit (pressure side hose kit with metric adapter for Toy steer box)
Starter = JEGS hi-tork mini (4:1) due to 153t flywheel
Fittings for heater hose on intake manifold = JEGS
45* swivel upper rad hose/thermostat fitting = JEGS
Radiator hoses = AutoZone (took about an hour of searching to find closest match)
Fuel line/brake booster vacuum line fittings = Home Depot and NAPA (input line is common size on TBI, return line is strange size got these at NAPA)

Vova
1985 toyota truck
1995 TBI Vortec
r-151-Wiring
HOWELL
AA
AA Bell Housing
Chevy Rad
Priceless

JJeep974
1st Gen 79 Pickup
87 4.3 TBI Astro Van
W56
Howell Wiring Harness
NWOR Motor Mounts
Advanced Adapters Chevy To Toyota Bellhousing
Griffin 2 Core Radiator 19x22
Reflared Chevy Power Steering Lines With Toyota Nut
$1800-$2000


TBI Swap Comments:
84Runner:
-When using a tbi engine the stock air filter is a HUGELY tall which most people end up having to lower the engine mounts lower than they would want to. I found on a s10forums.com that a common intake mod for these is to use a cadillac intake from a certain year and model.

CSFI Swaps
CHAD
'84 Extra Cab
'98 CSFI Vortec - 900 miles, With All Accessories & Harness $1000
GM TH700R4 with all updates $700
S10 Harness Reworked by Fuel Injection Specialties, Reprogrammed PCM - $350
AA Motor Mounts - $100
AA GM to Toyota Tcase Adapter $450
Be Cool Aluminum Radiator $275
-Total= $2875

Turtle Bite
1st gen p/u (80' longbed)
99' Vortec 70k all accesories, wirng/ ECM- $600
4l60E Trans -$200
Homebuilt motormounts
rear mounted junkyard radiator-$50
Adapters~$500
Square front driveline, lenghtened rear- $100
Total cost- $1600-1800

82FB
-1st Gen shortbed - trailblazer
-98 Vortec (CSFI)
-4L60E: **Tranny has burned up twice now. pissed. Almost ready to drop
in an SM465 with doubler
-Owner reworked OEM harness; computer redone by fastchip
-Northwest Offroad Mounts
-Advance adapters(2 needed) to dual 23 spline toyota cases
-Stock rad. from 98 Olds Bravada
-Total cost approx. $3600, offset by $800 in old engine/trans sold.

[Lowtorious]

General Swap Information

From 84Runner -
I can say for the 84-89 models with the t/c and crossmember in the stock location, when using the 4.3/700r4 combo, the engine fits perfect in the engine compartment front to back, with about 1 inch between fan to radiator, and a good few inches from the notiorious "distributor to firewall" clearance. Some obstacles that can be frustrating;
-Desired engine height
-Radiator hoses
-P/S hoses
-Throttle cable
-Buy the new engine FSM. Just do it! I got mine off E-Bay for like $15.

From Toyolet - Had to build a steel bracket to go from the Th 350 to the T-case to stiffen the mounting. I noticed that the 4 bolts on the trans would back out all the time from the torque of my 4.7 gears. Not a problem now!

-Thread on Engine Fitment and Location, custom high pressure power steering line from GM pump to Toy box

Engine Placement:

1st Generation Frame Info -
Info from Ferg (1st gen frame)
Totally do-able(1st gen frame, SA front suspension): '80 frame/'85 Xcab
'92 4.3L from a T10(S10 4x) gets you a manual trans CPU - plugs right into a Howell harness just fine. Get the long harness.

Been running as a daily driver since late '99. Trans seems to be holding up well with 33s. 2nd is the weak link, but use a sensible driving technique and should last for a long time. Used three (3) Astrovan tubular headers to make exhaust manifolds. AA's won't fit with man trans, fork and hose are in the way. Get a reduction type starter, lighter, more reliable, more $, less headaches. '83 Toy Diesel radiator works pretty well, but I'm looking for something better that will fit easy. Pm's accepted.

Info fron 84Runner ('84 4Runner frame/body)
'84 4Runner w/700r4, t-case was kept in stock location w/stock cross member.

In my 2nd gen 4runner ('88/'89) I'd like to mate a 4.3L up to my stock W56 trans (via AA bellhousing). Can this be done keeping the trans/t-case in their factory locations (IFS frame)?

rockota's general comments ('86 p/u & '89 Motor)
Placement - my engine is set low and back. I put the engine in first, then fit everything from there. Things I'd do differently: Softer motor mounts and
new cam during rebuild.

From FrankenToy:

Din't use stock engine or crossmember mounts. Moved tranny back about 13.5". Required modifying the crossmember and fabbing up new mounts on the frame (fairly easy). Rear side of heads now about 1/4" from firewall. Leaves ton of room for electric fan between rad and engine. I pushed the engine back for cooling AND because I knew I was going to have dual t-cases. Driveshafts would need mods anyway. Also reduced driveline angle for the front DS, both DS's are now the same length. Since I used a 2nd gen R150F gearbox I had to change the input shaft on the stocker 4 cyl t-case to a 23 spline in order for the coupler to work. Needed 2" body lift. Pulled eng and ECM from POS-10, traded tired eng for a NAPA rebuilt longblock. The stock fuel lines (input and return) are adequate for the TBI's needs. Also modded the gas pedal so I could use a stock GM throttle cable. The LC clutch slave cyl from AA needs an adapter to work with the mini's stock hydro line. LC slave cyl is a taper thread and the stock mini is a flare fitting. This was a one off custom piece I had made at a machine shop. After working bugs (self induced) out, the "Check Engine" light has yet to come on during operation, and ALL the sensors are connected.

Crash - (Taken from Q&A about electrically controlled auto trans vs. mechanical auto trans) If you want to save yourself ALOT of hassel (esp. if you are not wire friendly) then get all the components from the same rig. I think (not 100% since I normally just re-work factory harness's and don't care to deal with aftermarket) that most your aftermarket harness's offer one for both manual/auot, but not sure there and if they did it would be plug/play for the most part. The vcm controls the trans too so only one controller is needed (unless you go big $$ and get a seperate control/aftermarket).

v6toy4x - Q: How about on the 92-95 CPI (vinW) are there any factory manual trans applications to use as the basis for a cali smog legal swap to run a manual? I have only been able to find auto applications searching through the hollander interchange and mitchell books but there is one ecm that is particular to 1995 CPI (16230703-16230715) but can"t seem to figure out if it is for a manual trans CPI or something else. On a side note why does it seem like there is an unusually high number of different computers for the 4.3s in 92-95? I just got a brand new full dress 95 cpi and want to install but need SMOG
Wazzobie - A:
I know this for sure without the exact aplication like 4-5 of the VIN Digits and you must know what the doner computer/motor system if the vehicle was a stick or AT w/or w/out AC without inputing that exact info the Snapon scannor will not comunicate with the ECM. So basicly if you input garbage spec's while setting hooking up the scan tool you will get absolutly no where.
(on second thought OBD2 has a way to at least read codes with a genaric setting even if you dont know where the motor came from)

On mine (all I knew was the year of the motor and that it came from an Astro Van), it took me a good part of a day to try every option before I could have access.
My aplication was a stick shift 94 Astro TBI (I never even knew there was such a rig out there, I didnt pull the motor) but I guess some bells should have went off in my head when I had to pull the motor back out to chizzle out the pilot bushing inorder for the TH350 to slide all the way together with the 4.3(it was held out about 1/4") torque converter has to slide into the crank some.
Hope that helped your side note some.

As far as the CPI and running a manual trany, I would have to guess that your fuel management system for emissions would still pass at the pipe as long as you have a CAT, problem is without a VSS and proper OBD2 responsive EVAP system (even though it would probably run just fine and have good emmisions out the tail pipe) BUT heres the problem,, you will never get thru DEQ with the check engine light on if you tell them its 95 or newer.

Above they mentioned a company that will burn new chips for your engine computer (allthough I'm thinkin that is VERY illegal for them to do that for a highway aplication) I have never tryed it or talked that company so I cant say for sure.

Heres the deal even if you have a CPI OBD2 system (95-newer) I think I might fib just a little bit and tell them its a 94 engine and rather run the dyno load sniffer test where you know it would pass smog with a good cat
OBD2 checks never check whats coming out the tail pipe they just care what your computer is telling them (less sniffer equipment they need to buy and maintain).
OBD3 will be out soon if it has not allready, that will be where your car broadcasts a radio signal of wheather or not it will pass (basicly so you you will be being checked at every highway on-ramp.
Just wait untill they play speeding tickets into that one

Oil Filteration
dumb-
If you pick up a motor out of a blazer/jimmy with the remote oil filter/cooler you can convert this to the traditional style block mounted filter by unscrewing the threaded adapter on your remote filter mount (large hex key) and simply threading this into the block where the remote cooler lines run out of (remove the lines/housing first -- two bolts). There is/was a recal on the aluminum lines as they leak horribly, you can/could get them replaced with steel lines if you wish to retain the remote filter/cooler.

Misc.
LED Check Engine Light

[Lowtorious]

4.3L Engine Specific Information

4.3L Technical Information:
Horse power from lowest to highest
87-94 TBI
92-95 CPI
96-2004 SCPI

-Vortec Head Discussion

-Benny's uber-long thread on 4.3s and Vortec heads
-> The last page has excellent info on Vortec heads and proper use of "Vortec"

Race-Dezert.com - Baja Site w/4.3L high HP info

PBB thread on power and performance upgrades

Thanks to junkyardjoe from the orig. thread:

vortec heads, i think v-8 & v-6
http://www.chevymania.com/tech/vortec.htm

didnt see this on here yet but good info here
http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/ar40047.htm

For guys running q-jets
http://www.florida4x4.com/tech/quadrajet/

best article i found so far
http://www.florida4x4.com/tech/quadrajet/qtune.pdf

Mudologist- A little 4.3 vortec tidbit.. From previous experiance the 92-95 4.3 vortec engines with the cool looking intake had the fuel pressure regulator mounted under the intake runners in the valley. My regulator started to leak without me knowing and washed the engine down and wiped out the crank bearings. Found out later that these motors where known for that.

[Lowtorious]

VSS Specific and Related Information

Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) Discussion:
As I understand a VSS comes in two forms:
1) Mechanical Speedo adapter form (ALA JTR's conversion cable supplied to Downey) - used when retaining Toyota t-case
2) Reluctor ring that fits onto the tail section of automatic GM trannys or retrofitted onto non-GM trans.

Crash: Typically, vss is used for diagnostic purpose's and from what I have read/experiance from doing what I do, doesn't use it for fuel management..

Ferg ('89 Motor): VSS came from Downey/Jags that run. Cpu fires up the 'Check Engine' light without it.

Toyolet:
I have been running the VSS unhooked for over 4 years. I have a 92 CPI 4.3 in my Yot. All I get is a code once and a while under decell. and braking. The CPI's us a 40 pulse VSS and reluctor ring. Howell told me that they can burn a chip without the VSS code. TBI's have a different pulse and Downey and Howell sell them. I think Downey also sell one for the CPI.

Straight from the "Jags That Run (JTR)" Website:
Specific VSS Page -
-Basically, the VSS tells the ECM how fast the vehicle is going. Most people think the VSS is only used for the lock-up torque converter. The VSS is also used to control the EGR valve, the charcoal canister purge valve, the electric cooling fans, idle speed, and air/fuel ratio. This is all explained in the Chevrolet shop manuals.
-It must be emphasized that the VSS is used to control the idle speed when the vehicle is moving. Without the VSS, a vehicle may have stalling problems under certain conditions. Needless to say, this is dangerous. Raising the minimum idle speed with the adjusting screw can eliminate stalling, but the engine will still not run optimally without a VSS.
-A lot of people think that running "closed loop" is best for fuel mileage. Closed loop simply means that the oxygen sensor is being used to monitor the fuel/air ratio. Some of the Chevrolet fuel-injected engines are programmed to run lean under certain conditions (called "highway mode") to improve fuel mileage during steady cruise conditions. Without a VSS, the engine computer (ECM) will not get the correct signals to run the engine for best fuel mileage. There are a lot of programs in the ECM that depend on the VSS. For best operation, the VSS needs to be connected and functioning.
(VSS: Jags That Run - Chapter 13 of their Chevrolet TBI & TPI Manual)

FrankenToy- Without a VSS there's a possibility of low-speed stalling, esp if you have a crawler box. The ECM should sense that the truck is moving and adjust accordingly. Never seen it happen in real life but it is a possibility. The VSS also figures in the EGR management (reduces combustion/EGT temps at higher RPMs).

no excuses - According to Mark at Affordible Fuel Injection you will never notice the difference with or without VSS if u have a new chip burned and the right ECM. This is with a TBI system, I will report bacl later on this when I get my shiat going.

Wazzobie- The TBI non OBD2 systems have a working EGR system without a VSS. The CPI version would need a vacume controled EGR system conversion, since they are fully electronic and probably do have a needed relationship with the VSS.

The howell harness and computer reflashing eliminates the post catilitic converter oxygen sensors, the vss for manual/ non- 4l60e tranny applications, and the evap controlls. I have a 99 4.3l with a 99 4l60e, richpblaze has a 2000 with a 700r4. If it is truly a 700r4 and not a 4l60E, then he will have a TV cable controlling the tranny, not the computer. In that case he will also be sans prndl switch and vss. And a side note, it will run and drive OK, not great without the prndl switch, evap system, and rear o2 sensors. It will still shift. If your vss breaks off then it wont shift out of 1st. OBD2 can also make the check engine light blink all the time because it always sees the fault. I believe this will make the newer ones run in kinda a limp home mode. Street drivin rig's really do kinda need that stuff & if your caught charging $ to remove any of it, well...thats not so good idea.. from what I hear its a 20K fine in Oregon per rig. I trailer my rig to DEQ everytime it passes with flying colors

Crash - Post o2's have nothing to do with fuel delivery. There purpose is to diagnose the efficiency of the catalytic converter. The same goes with the evap system. The only time you will get the light to "blink" is the event of a catalytic converter damaging miss-fire.

dumb-
If you pick up the matching 4l60E or at least one from another v6 application either pull the VSS from the t'case or on a 2wd the slipyoke housing. It will bolt into most adapters or you can mill it into a custom housing or whatever. The VSS is required on these newer motors for proper operation (as described in previous posts). A 4x tranny without the t'case will not have a VSS attached to it!

It is possible to retain the stock 4wd tranny/t'case adapter adn use it with a dana 300 (5 of six bolts line up) or NP 230's or 240's t'case. You'll need to mill the adapter and weld in a plate for the VSS. You can make your own 40 tooth gear or buy an aftermarket one (this is harder as the depth the sensor needs to go in to get the right gap is more difficult to achieve). You can have d'shaft clearance issue with a d300 and the tranny pan depending on how you clock it. Using a clocking ring mitigates some of this and solves your 5 of 6 bolts issue if you build the ring right.

VSS & Atlas
Pat98TJ-
Q: Has anyone relocated a VSS to an Atlas? If so do you have pics? I can get anything off of the donor vehicle as long as I request it before my engine/tranny/t-case ships....is there anything else I will need off of it besides the wiring harness's?
Edit- I called Advance...my Atlas was ordered with the adapter that has a hole for the stock VSS.

[Lowtorious]

General Wiring Information

ECM- basically controls the motor only
PCM motor/trans controler
VCM same as a PCM.

Wazzobie -
I removed the toyota factory harness from the ECM out and installed the GM harness thru the same hole on the fire wall. The Fuel pump relay and the starter wire are pretty much all your looking to salvage, even the F/P relay will need to be re wired. + I hooked up the factory check engine light so I found the wires for it. Just print out ECM diagrames for both systems and start circleing what you think you will need to keep, then find the wire colors and mark um, run the powers to switched or always on and the grounds to good ground and cross your fingers. if I remember corectly one of the 3 toyota ECM plugs dosent get removed with the harness thru the fire wall (I could be totaly full of huie on that but if memory serves I think thats how it is on my 86 runner). But figure to tailer things up you usualy have to split back the tape and when done re tape in a twist like the factory dose. solder knock off any and all burrs from the solder joint and tape um up with ((3Msuper+33 tape)) or heat shrink every thing even if its just for a test run.
you can shorten the questionable wires nice and neat after it runs




Q&A from original thread

richpblaze - (Gathering process) I have a couple of questions for you guys,what are you doing for ignition/ coil, what fuel pump to keep it in the tank, and are the lines bigger than stock toyota???????????? I have a 2000 HO Vortec, using a 700R4, will be using howell harness and computer, AA headers and t-case adapter. just about ready to go, this is a very helpfull thread. Blaze

Turtle Bite- You shouldnt have to change anything if you have an oem distributor/ coil with the howell harness, just plug and play.
Wazzobie- So your adapter makes for a good VSS? You need to keep that EVAP system intact for it to work right. Dont forget its not even and option but to run at least a working CAT with 3-4 O2'sensors. I'm guessing you probably have a transmision other then a 700R4,
like the not sure what exactly there called but the 460 or 480 (newer style 4spd auto) I'm guessing is what you have to work with.

Post 1995 OBD2 systems (95-newer) really rely on there surounding systems for proper fuel and transmision controle.

VSS= Vehicle Speed Sensor (not that important on a throtle body injected motor but Port injected 4.3L's far as I know the newer stuff really needs that sensor to be working at least good enough to tell the computer when you have started moving and stoped again.
Dont forget Your PRNDLcator needs to work also:
PRNDLcator= Park, Reverse, Neutral, Drive, Low location switch. Here is the only way I can think of how to put this,, Why would the motor wanna run very well if it never gets put into a gear? As seen thru the eyes of the OBD2 computer. Unless you want to be driving around in open loop (non varying timing and fuel curves) all the time = less power and maybe drivability issues.

All the OBD2 system need to be happy. That includes a working Catiltic Converter or CAT OBD2 can tell if the CAT is working or not thats why it has pre CAT O2 sensors and Post CAT O2 sensors. Also a working EVAP system is a good idea.
EVAP=
The emission control system that prevents the escape of fuel vapors from a vehicle's fuel system. Fuel vapors are routed by hoses to a charcoal canister for storage. Later, when the engine is running a purge control valve opens allowing intake vacuum to siphon the fuel vapors into the engine.

whitebrowithafro-
Q: Also, can someone tell me what they did with the oil pressure sender and temp sensor sender. I know that they tell the cpu this or that, but can I take them out, and put in mechanical fittings for my mechanical guages? I am thinking about making some T's, but that would look kind of hokie! Sooooo.... are there any ports that you folks know about for the mechanical guages? At this point, I would like to keep the wiring as close to stock as possible, minus the VSS. The VSS will be removed with the reflash, pending your thoughts and ideas from your guys' past experience. The oil sender is on the back of the intake area... I am planning on putting a little (T) on there, and installing the NPT port for the mech guage. The Temp Sensor could be done the same way, however there are headers/manifolds in the way. Is there another port on the intake that I can use? On the block?
Wazzobie -
A: You must keep the factory coolant sender or it will run very very rich cause it thinks its cold out. If you wire it up like the factory dose then your fuel pump wont say running without the oil sender.

Body Control Module (CSFI Swaps - '97+ Donor)
dumb- For those contemplating a CSFI (newer than 97) 4.3L swap make sure you get the BCM (Body Control Module) if you are reworking a factory harness. It's essential for the Passlock II ignition wiring/defeat. You can use a FSM to figure out how to beat/defeat the antitheft. Basically by wiring in some resistors and running the "reprogramming/rekeying" sequence.

From the orignal thread: If you get your ECM/ECU reflashed and have the VATS removed, then the BCM is no longer an issue.

[Lowtorious]

Exhaust

Cdn Yota- Can anyone post some more info on exhaust options? I have a set of tubular manifolds and they dont quite fit. Just wondering what it took for you guys to make them work? Engine is going into an 85 P/U with a 3 inch body lift. I am running a th350. I was told people have used stock gm tubular manifolds. I have some off a newer blazer or van.
They dont fit though. I am curious if anyone has pics of the modification they made to these manifolds to make them work. Or what other year and make of stock manifolds will work.

Crash- 87-88 astro vans and 87 monte carlo's. You can also just cut/rotate the flange to clear. Still kinda snug against the frame but I also suggest lengthning it as rockota suggests..
rockota- Then cut off the collector flange and move down about 3-5" to clear frame and slave.

Wazzobie- I know I used one of the manifolds that came with the 94 TBI Astro van motor, (pretty sure it was the passenger side). Then I finaly found a stock one on a customers rig that looked like it would fit and I think that was from a 1988 or 1989 4.3L full size K1500 for the drivers side. Can anyone confirm the P/U driver side one?
What motormounts are you using? Most people have to cut one flange off and extend it to clear the framerail, at least thats what we did on buddies 84 and 90, but those had homebuilt motor mounts. The howell harness and computer reflashing eliminates the post catilitic converter oxygen sensors, the vss for manual/non- 4l60e tranny applications, and the evap controlls. I have a 99 4.3l with a 99 4l60e, richpblaze has a 2000 with a 700r4. If it is truly a 700r4 and not a 4l60E, then he will have a TV cable controlling the tranny, not the computer. In that case he will also be sans prndl switch and vss. It will run and drive OK, not great without the prndl switch, evap system, and rear o2 sensors. It will still shift. If your vss breaks off then it wont shift out of 1st.

FrankenToy- It makes a BIG difference whether you're running a std gearbox or a slush box. If you've got a manual tranny you're kinda stuck with using the cast iron stockers as NOBODY makes headers that don't block the clutch slave cylinder. If you're runnin' a slush box then AA and Downey sell some specialty headers.

No Excuses- Check with Sanderson headers http://www.sandersonheaders.com/eng...blckhggreng.htm
They have a block hugger shorty style that might work with the V6 application. I hate to recommend them but NWOR also has a set of V6 headers for this aplication also.

junkyyardjoe- I went to a swap meet, bought some old sbc headers that were in good shape for bout 15 bucks cut them up and had headers for cheap, one leaked so i cut my own fanges and bought some 1-5/8 j bends from jegs, started cutin & weldin, vola i now have fender well headers, thats what i did worked for me, though i gotta finish the pass side yet.

marvin82- I had both the tubular exhaust and the "regular" exhaust manifold that I was told would not work. Well the tubulars would not work correctly so I have the regular stock '91 s-10/1/2 ton manifold that exit directly over the frame rails. Tight but it should work.

JJeep74- I used the manifolds off an 87 astro the passenger fit fine but i had to pie cut the drivers side and heat it up and bend it and the rewelded it with a stick welder and nickle rod

whitebrowwithafro- You guys are stating that the "header" style manifold on 87-88 Astrovans is available? I went to a local yard and found 10 astrovans. None of them had anything different, manifold wise, than I did.
Can anyone get me these? Edit - See Wazzobie's above comments.

[Lowtorious]

Fuel Delivery

JJeep74- i ran all new line 3/8 aluminum wasnt actually that hard and only cost about 30 bucks for a 25 foot roll.

noexcuses- I ran 3/8 steel lines for feed lines and 5/16 steel lines for return. pulled the pickup out of tank, cut off and drilled out the stock pickup and return lines, welded in and bent new pickup and return lines. Oh yeh and welded up extra hole

Wazzobie- I used the stock Toy EFI lines and pump for the TBI Chevy. I dont think the Toyota pump will deadhead high enough for the CPI Vortech's

Braided steel lines & fittings:

Abrogate - I have a 92 CPI and i was reading on s10forum.com that the inlet takes a 16 X 1.5 mm saginaw type fitting and the return takes a 14 X 1.5 mm saginaw type fitting. What exactly is a saginaw type fitting? is it a high pressure fitting? arent all AN high pressure fittings? would an o-ring fitting work here instead?
I wasnt impressed by the pump that i got from howell, so i got this bling little thing:

I am still a little unsure whats up with the fuel line fittings for a 92 CPI. I know that they are 16 x 1.5 mm for the inlet and 14 x 1.5 mm for the return and that they are both saginaw type fittings. I went to the local race shop and we came up with these part #'s for some -6AN male to the saginaw fittings. 991954 and 991955 for the fittings.

Edit (Turtle Bite)- Those fittings use o-rings at the tip. I used stock saginaw fittings on mine and they had o-rings at least.

Fuel Pump Talk - Toy vs. GM for different EFI setups
V6 Fuel Pump info

[Lowtorious]

Adapting Power Steering

Wazzobie- Use the GM pump with modified PSI line, (3/8 line union) can be made to work on the 10mm line if you spred the ferrel. I started to use the toy PS pump and home brew adaptors, it just didnt workout so I used the pump and braquets from a 91 Chey Caprice.

Rockclod-
Q: anybody tell me is there an adapter that can be bought from summit to use my toyota ps hose with a sag pump?
ferg-
A: Belive it or not Toy and Sag fittings are the same thread, just different lengths. Cut off the on you don't need and install the one you do and reflare

[Lowtorious]

Engine / Transmission Coupling

richpblaze- I decided to go with Downey since theirs was cheaper and shorter than AA. Also picked up some headers. Dropped the tranny off at the shop to change the output shaft.
Rich's trans/motor prob - He tried bolting up a 4L60 orig. behind a V8 and it wouldn't couple correctly....
rich: The problem was I had an 04 4L60E and a 2000 4.3. The 04 tranny would not work (Longer input shaft) all the research I had done told me nothing about GM changing things on the 4L60E. So I had to get a new tranny. The input shaft in the 4L60E in 2002 it is longer than the older ones. So now everything is in and I will be moving it all foward a couple of inches. Then I will start on all of the other fun. If I had to do it over I would DEFINETLY get a matched set (engine/tranny). I just ordered a bellhousing from the dealer to fit the 00 motor. I had found three local and all were the same as the one I have. FYI it would be much easier to purchase a matching pair ( Motor and Tranny) So I have to pull the motor and start all over. I was not anticpating this problem. Small delay

Chad- In reference to richpblaze's tranny problem. 4.3's use a different torque convertor then the V8's do. The 4.3 convertor is a little 'shorter'. So if the 4L60 was from behind a V8 and it still has the V8 torque convertor, it needs replaced with a 4.3 convertor. Then binding wont occur when bolting things up.

whitebrowithafro-
Who has the best prices on adapters for the Toy tranny plus the clutch disc, PP, T/O bearing, slave...? I have seen that AA has the adapter kit for $405.... anything cheaper out there? From who? Who's got the best deal or company sales? Thanks!You obviously need the adapter bellhousing kit...Which flywheel do you use? Clutch? I know the Land Cruiser slave... but what about the rest?

I am looking at $433 for the adapter, fork, etc.
$350 for the reflash at fastchip.com
$278 flywheel
$177 Pressure plate
$119 clutch disc
$34 T.O. bearing
$52 FJ Slave

Does this sound right? Can anyone simplify this? Can we use stock, existing, or alternate parts for an alternate price?

One more thing... The 153 tooth flywheel is a bit different correct? Are there variations? I called a local flywheel guy and he said that he has one, that will fit the motor. I just want to make sure that I am getting the right one. I saw that the 85 and below are different, and 86+ are different.

Poor A$$ Stock '93- Is the T.O. bearing needed from chevy application or the Toy? n1716 is supposed to fit an old buick. Is that the correct one needed?


Abrogate- 92 4.3 CPI A I know is that this is the part number that i bought and everything works. and again this is a Toy G52 behind a 92 CPI and ordered a bunch of my stuff from AA. EDIT - Flywheel cost approx. $170.

PN's
Centerforce I Pressure Plate - CF165552 (A.A.)
McLeod Clutch Disc – 716105 (A.A.)
Brake Best slave Cylinder – CSA37215 (O’Reilly) didn’t work
Toyota external slave cylinder – 31470-60022 (Toyota)
Dynapak 168 tooth GM flywheel – FW96529 (O’Reilly)
Centerforce throw out bearing – n1716 (A.A.)
Napa oil filter – 91036 (Napa)
GM oil filter threaded nipple – 14081300 (GM)
Mr. Gasket flywheel bolts – 910 (O’Reilly)
Mr. Gasket pressure plate bolts – 912 (O’Reilly)
Advance adapters bell housing kit – 712560 (A.A.)

I have not replaces the clutch master cylinder, but i think that i need to because there is just no more adjusting the slave. I have the 92 4.2 CPI in my truck and it runs but the mini starters' gear does not retract all the way and hits the fly wheel. you could imagine what this is doing......the loudest scratching sound ever. has anyone ever had this happen and would it be a bad thing to take the starter out and have the gear machined back about 1/32 to 1/16 of an inch for the clearance?

Crash- Last one I had that did this was a sb 350 and it was the wrong flex plate. Either that or your starter needs to be shimmed

Wazzobie - I have had mine do that a few times now and it was just a matter of loosening the 2 starter bolts wiggling it around a little and tightening it back up. Basicly it is pitched off to one side from tightening one bolt all the way before the other bolt gets snuged up.


JJeep74- i put a w56 behind my 4.3 basically you need to buy the clutch stuff from aa which i recomend it is way worth the money i got my adapter from rockbuggy supply for $333 so there is cheaper out there than what you have. The only problem is i went with the bigger 165 flywheel and i had to buy a high torque starter without the nose cone in order for it to work in the AA adapter. I was going to do the 700r4 too but i was able to score a tranny for like 100 bucks and a new auto was around 1200 and you would still need an adapter to go on the back. also you you might want to consider that for the auto you will need to run a tranny cooler if you want it to last. and i hear the panny from the 700r4 interfears with the front driveshaft making you use a small tube for you DL.

noexcuses- I have had my 88 4.3 TBi turbo 350 dual cases adn 4.56's on 35's for about a month now and it rocks . I love it, of course my 4.3 and turbo 350 are modified but it runs like a champ. I do get some O2 sensor rich and low manifold vacuam codes but I have a cam in there so I guess I will just let it flash at me from time to time.

[Lowtorious]

Coolant System

2manycruisers- What are you guys doing to cool your 6's? Electric or mechanical? I have the oem clutch fan for my '03 4.3 but am thinking about going electric to save a few ponies. Mine is actually going into a Cruiser, so I have plenty of space for airflow but a heavier rig (thus the desire to spare some horsies).

noexcuses- I am running a 16 electric fan from a wrecking yard and it works pretty good. I also have a mechanical fan but its not doing much so it will be coming off. The electric fan is actully a puller I just reversed the wires amd made it a puller. I will eventually be getting a pusher fan.

ferg- The puller is more efficient than a pusher. All of the air moved by the puller will have been drawn through the rad. A pusher produces 'splatter' and will not push air through any minor obstruction you may have, bugs, weeds, dirt etc.

whitebrowithafro-
Water pump issues... There are 2 spouts on the top of the water pump. Do both go to the intake? Is there a shorty style water pump that I can use? And is there such thing as a water pump of a different year, that will fit the block, and have the main output on the drivers side? What all can I cap off on the intake, hose wise? There is a brake booster output, evap thingy that went into the intake, the tube that goes from the valve cover to the intake air tube, etc. Anyone have photos of modified, no emissions, vortec setups, already installed?

[Lowtorious]

Uhhh....

[Lowtorious]

VIN Info

"W" was used for 91/92-96 CPI which is good for 195 hp. '96+ "W" vins are 200 HP.
"X" vin is a 180 hp motor.
"Z" is the common older(pre94) TBI which peaked at 165 hp

[Lowtorious]

Fuel Economy

What are you guys getting for MPG's? I am trying to talk myself into this and commute 80 miles a day...

Wazzobie - I get 14-16 mpg (not that great) and 8-10 when I'm out screwing around in the hills on 37's and 4:88's. The th350 helps eat fuel but I dont really see a need for a 2'nd t-case with running the auto, now that I have had the auto I would say autos are great in the snow, and long hill climbs (long as the kickdown and vacume modulator are set right) you just keep the foot to the floor. A stick would be way more fun to drive imo, and probably give me that little extra power "feel" throtle responce I wish it had.
EDIT- Since I played last weekend at Funny Rocks I have now found a use for some extra gear or 2nd t-case. After one day of playing in the summer dust my 4runner's 14" air filter sock got pluged just enough to make me stop any foward movement while trying to climb a few rock shelf's that were tackled the night before, so basicly where the tires could not spin and the runner just wouldnt put out enough ummmm,ph to spin or go foward.

[Lowtorious]

Any comments on the new format or content?

[crash]

Originally Posted by Lowtorious

Any comments on the new format or content?

Very nice work

[rusmannx]

hey mods, can we get this linked into or added into the toyota FAQ?

[youngladdy]

Originally Posted by Lowtorious

Any comments on the new format or content?

Awesome job, great read and very organzied.

[Jamus2]

W was also used for 91/92-96 CPI which is good for 195 hp
Z is the common older(pre94) TBI which peaked at 165 hp
Also, early 90's TBI engines with "vortec" valve covers do not have vortec heads, they're the same older head with fancy covers, hence they still rate 165hp. The older TBI and CPI heads are interchangable. The Syclones/Typhoons ran TBI heads. The newer (96+)sequencial vortec heads are the ones that won't swap. Without a little wirk that is.

Disclaimer, these HP numbers are for s-series. Different vehicles and trim levels changed power rating. Really just have to go on a case by case basis.

[no excuses]

Originally Posted by Lowtorious

Any comments on the new format or content?

Look's great..

[Lowtorious]

TTT - Thanks for the replies.

[abrogate]

NICE WORK!!! somehow i missed this thread everytime it has been updated. i was kinda surprised to see my shit on here. i have the truck damn near done now. i will try to send you (low) a PM with more PN's and info that i have accumulated and you can edit it how you want it in here.... but keep in mind i procrastinate ALOT and it might be a few days errr weeks errrr months errr.r..r..r....... shit, you'll get it someday.

[JJeep74]

awsome work wish it was this easy to get all the info needed before i did my swap

[TOY 2]

A little info to add. not swap related but HP related to 4.3 engines



http://www.cardomain.com/ride/721787/3

that link is how to make the 96 and new heads fit on a older tbi engine

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...v6/index1.html

this one is an article that HOTROD mag done on building a 300 hp 4.3


If anyone is interested in putting the Newer style Vortec heads on an older engine here are the parts and thing you have to do. the reason people are doing this is because the 96+ heads flow better then a fully ported 95 and older head. I have read alot and most people are claiming 35 HP gain with heads alone.

you can go to summits web sit and type in the part # and you can get price on all these parts


96 to 98 heads (4 intake bolt on each head)

edelbrock 2114 intake(bolts to newer head bolt pattern)

holley HLY-17-45(adapter to mate stock tbi to intake)

thats all you need to put Newer style heads on an older tbi engine.


the next step is for the people that want to rebuild the engine and go with a high lift cam. the newer style heads will not work with a cam with lift more than .470" . To solve this problem all you have to do is cut the valve seats down.here is an article in doing this to a V8 vortec head.

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...ort/index.html


Parts needed to do the modification yourself. all parts are avalible at summit


Arbor tool cca-4732

valve guide cutter cca-4726

Valve seat cutter cca-4721

New valve seals to fit new valve guide 530-16

pic of modified and stock valve seat

[toy_groves]

Great for the TOYOTA FAQ. Thanks for the work!

[Kevins4runner]

Here is the link to fix the infamous 92-95 CPI Regulator leak. Cheap!

http://s10planet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4342