D-DAY Tahoe DEIS

[Kurtuleas]

I cross posted this from land-use to make sure everyone reads it.

Tahoe National Forest DEIS

Read it and weep:

http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/tahoe/projec...overview.shtml

Only some of bypasses on Fordyce are on the maps and a four month Winter closure is also proposed.

Rattlesnake switchback is gone, Old Gold Valley trail is gone...

We need to look at the east side of the Rubicon closely to make sure we are ok there

Start sending in comments!

E-mail for comments: tnf_rte_desig@fs.fed.us

[jethrodeg]

Kurt I see bypasses. I could be reading it wrong but I see them in orange.

Un-authorized Routes Added to:
System Trails (Labeled)
(Orange)High Clearance Trail Vehicles

[Tinman]

Working on reading through it. I'll also be attending the public meetings on Oct. 9th in Auburn.

[jethrodeg]

Something we need to fight for is converting Rattlesnake Road into a "Open to All Vehicles" road.

Convert Road from "Open to Highway Legal
Vehicles Only" to " Open to All Vehicles"

[Kurtuleas]

Originally Posted by jethrodeg

Kurt I see bypasses. I could be reading it wrong but I see them in orange.

Un-authorized Routes Added to:
System Trails (Labeled)
(Orange)High Clearance Trail Vehicles

Ok, let me double check that...

I got that info from Bebe.

[FuzzyZ]

yep the bypasses are there but rattlesnake from cisco to fordyce lake is highway legal vehicals only! that defenetly needs to be fought!

[jethrodeg]

My maps just came in the mail.....HUGE

[FuzzyZ]

there also is nothing about fordyce being closed for a few months. only closer in that area is rattlesnake road january to april!

[jethrodeg]

Originally Posted by FuzzyZ

there also is nothing about fordyce being closed for a few months. only closer in that area is rattlesnake road january to april!

In Alt #6 (preferred) the trail shows "Season of Allowed use" May 1 through December 31.

[Bebe]

Ok there are some bypasses on Alt. 6, but you still have to ask for them to be kept in what ever alternative they choose.

The switchback trails is gone.

[RCKRATZ]

Browsing through alternative 6 right now. Gonna get cracking on the entire document this weekend.

Rattlesnake looks like it will need to be fought for.

I hate the idea of any "winter" closure, but this type of wording really scares the hell out of me.
"Closures could begin earlier or later and end earlier or later then the dates based on resource specialist assesments of field conditions."



More to come..........

[Kurtuleas]

Originally Posted by RCKRATZ

"Closures could begin earlier or later and end earlier or later then the dates based on resource specialist assesments of field conditions."
....

That's what we have in Eldo. The Forest sup can extend the winter closures. But he can NOT open routes during the winter closure dates regarless if it's dusty out or not.

[Kurtuleas]

IMO, one of the first things we should do, is demand in writing an extention of the comment period. This is a MASSIVE document. (Just my suggestion)

As an Eldo guy, I do not really know the routes or the lay of the land as well as you FOF guys do. Becuase of that, I will spend most of my time commenting on the document itself and the wording and not focusing on indivdiual routes. (like the BS Wolverine habitat )

Still, If you guys could PLEASE come up with a list of routes, bypasses etc. that need to be commented on and reasons for them to stay on the maps, It would help others send in some comments for them.

We also have to realise that just becuase a route is on the preferred alternative does NOT mean that it is safe. We still have to fight for them.

Maybe we should also work on packing these open houses and meetings with people?

I am by NO MEANS an expert on this stuff, but i did learn a few things from Eldo's fiasco, and I am willing to help in anyway possible.

Bret, Bebe etc.....I am totally at your service. please let me know how I can help in anyway.

KURT

[lttlbddy]

Originally Posted by Kurtuleas

Still, If you guys could PLEASE come up with a list of routes, bypasses etc. that need to be commented on and reasons for them to stay on the maps, It would help others send in some comments for them.

This ^

You guys give me the specifics and I will get hand written letters to the Forest from both of my Clubs. We don't know the routes well enough to do this on our own.

Steve G

[broncdawg]

Ditto what Kurtuleas said about posting some language so we can grab it to personalize into letters of support.
File now for an extension, and flexibility in the length of winter closures is something we may have to accept, as long as the language is very clear as to its purpose and need. Know it sucks, but compromises like that can go a long way toward building cred. with the agencies and getting them to bend somewhere else. .02 cents. Subscribed

[Bebe]

Originally Posted by broncdawg

Ditto what Kurtuleas said about posting some language so we can grab it to personalize into letters of support.
File now for an extension, and flexibility in the length of winter closures is something we may have to accept, as long as the language is very clear as to its purpose and need. Know it sucks, but compromises like that can go a long way toward building cred. with the agencies and getting them to bend somewhere else. .02 cents. Subscribed

Winter Closure is the big thing.

Something i didn't think about with the Eldo, although a large portion of my appeal was written on the matter.

We gave them no compromise. What I think might work, is if we specifically ask for specific roads/areas to remain open:

Fordyce- from eagle lakes to the first river crossing

Washington - to Graniteville

Buckeye Rd - Chalk Bluff

Sno Flower/Road 19

You get the idea.

We also need to make it clear that we do spend money on snow wheeling. Big tires, bead locks, winches, snow equipment. We spend money in the areas close to our favorite snow wheeling spots.

I honestly think that they and some of the LU leaders didn't know that we do this as a part of our culture. They had no idea how important it is to us.

So we need to let them know. But we need to be specific.

[Sewie]

Originally Posted by Kurtuleas

Maybe we should also work on packing these open houses and meetings with people?

I mentioned this to Bebe on the phone, but we need to push to get a meeting (or meetings) closer to the Bay Area. There's a lot of wheelers down here but its near impossible to make it to one of these meetings after work.

The meeting they held in the Bay Area for Eldo was packed.

[V8Pinto]

Has anybody mentioned Rattlesnake Rd. conversion to highway-legal only to the Cisco Grove campground owners? The draw wouldn't be there if we couldn't ride our dirt bikes through the campground to Rattlesnake.

[jethrodeg]

Originally Posted by V8Pinto

Has anybody mentioned Rattlesnake Rd. conversion to highway-legal only to the Cisco Grove campground owners? The draw wouldn't be there if we couldn't ride our dirt bikes through the campground to Rattlesnake.

Yes...post #4 in this thread. Definitely high on the list to fight for. (fyi:currently Rattlesnake Road is highway legal only)

[Kurtuleas]

The BRC action alert went out this morning. Here is the text:

BLUERIBBON COALITION ACTION ALERT!

Dear BRC Action Alert Subscriber,

Tahoe National Forest Releases DEIS For Motorized Travel Plan

The Tahoe National Forest, located in northeastern California, has just released their Draft Environmental Impact Statement (DEIS) for Motorized Travel Management. The Forest Service (FS) will be accepting comments for the next 60 days and there are some open house/orientation meetings scheduled for early October (see schedule below).

These public meetings are being held to provide an overview of the DEIS, to answer questions and assist the public in formulating comments. These public meetings will start with an informal open house for people to view displays, talk with various team members, and get questions answered. The open house will be followed by a presentation by the Forest Service to help those reviewing the document to better understand and comment on the DEIS. Later in the comment period, they may offer additional open houses/listening sessions.

The Forest has developed seven alternatives for managing motor vehicle use on the Tahoe National Forest. Here is a brief overview of each alternative:

1) No Action - This alternative is required by the National Environmental Policy Act and provides a baseline for comparing other alternatives. Under this alternative, no changes would be made to the current Transportation System of roads and trails. Motorized cross-country travel would not be prohibited.

2) Motorized Recreation and Access Opportunities - All site-specific routes that were recommended for addition during the earlier public scoping process were added to this alternative, totaling 72 miles in addition to 2 "open areas." The reservoirs east of Truckee would also be designated as "open" below high water line. Cross-country travel would be prohibited. A modified deer closure would be incorporated; however, no wet weather closures would be included. 481 miles of smoother surface roads would be changed to "Open to all Vehicles."

3) Cross-Country Travel Prohibited with No Changes to Existing National Forest Transportation System - The only change in this alternative would be to prohibit cross-country travel.

4) Modified Proposal by Environmental Group Coalition - This would prohibit motorized travel off system roads and trails, would add wet weather closures, and would add 31 miles of new trails to the system. None of the trail additions would be in Roadless Areas or in spotted owl/goshawk-protected activity centers.

5) Modified Proposal by BlueRibbon Coalition - This would prohibit motorized travel off system roads and trails, would establish seasons of use to incorporate modified deer and wet weather closures, would maintain most of the roads open to both street legal and off-road vehicles; and would add 238 miles of trail to the system. 481 miles of smoother surface roads would be changed to "Open to All Vehicles".

6) Preferred Alternative - This would prohibit cross-country travel, would establish seasons of use to incorporate modified deer and wet weather closures, and would add 70 miles to the trail system. None of the trail additions would significantly impact Roadless Area character or spotted owl/goshawk-protected activity centers. Considering public need and public safety, 276 miles of smoother surface roads would be changed to "Open to All Vehicles."

7) Notice of Intent - This was the proposal released in the spring of 2007, and would prohibit cross-country travel and add 45 miles to the trail system.

The DEIS discloses the various effects of alternatives for each of the different resources, including: air quality, archeology, watershed resources, wildlife species, plant communities, recreation, transportation, Roadless Areas, Wild and Scenic Rivers, fire, adjacent ownerships, and socio-economic impacts.

Copies of all DEIS documents and maps are available on the Forest's website at: http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/tahoe/projec...overview.shtml Please review the documents and maps closely and try to make your comments as site-specific as possible, preferably by referring to those specific roads or trails you have concerns with. It is important to remember this proposal is just a draft. Your comments will be critical in refining this draft proposal prior to the final decision in March 2009.

THE COMMENT DEADLINE IS NOVEMBER 26, 2008

Mail written comments to:
Travel Management Team
631 Coyote Street
Nevada City, CA. 95959

Email comments to:
tnf_rte_desig@fs.fed.us

Comments must be postmarked by: November 26, 2008.

Technical questions can be addressed to:
David Arrasmith, Forest Planner
631 Coyote Street
Nevada City, CA 95945
(530) 478-6220
EMAIL: darrasmith@fs.fed.us

Open House/Meeting Schedule

Wednesday, October 1, 2008 Open House 3:00 pm - 5:00 pm., Orientation 6:30 p.m. to 8:30 p.m.
Nevada City Elks Lodge
518 Hwy 49 North
Nevada City, CA

Friday, October 3, 2008 Open House 3:00 pm - 5:00 pm., Orientation 6:30 p.m. to 8:30 p.m.
Sierraville Ranger Station
317 So Lincoln Hwy, (Hwy 89)
Sierraville, CA

Tuesday, October 7, 2008 Open House 3:00 pm - 5:00 pm., Orientation 6:30 p.m. to 8:30 p.m.
Resort at Squaw Creek
400 Squaw Creek Road
Olympic Valley, CA

Thursday, October 9, 2008 Open House 3:00 pm - 5:00 pm., Orientation 6:30 p.m. to 8:30 p.m.
The Ridge Golf Course
2020 Golf Course Way
Auburn, CA

If you know of someone who would like to be added to the mailing list, please have him or her email their address to Ann Westling, Public Affairs Officer, at awestling@fs.fed.usor call (530) 478-6205.

JUST REMEMBER, PUBLIC INVOLVEMENT IS CRUCIAL TO KEEP RECREATION AREAS OPEN, PLEASE GET INVOLVED!

Thanks in advance for your support,
Ric Foster
Public Lands Department Manager
BlueRibbon Coalition
208-237-1008 ext 107

[Kurtuleas]

Short and to the point.

Took me 2 mins:

Dear Forest Supervisor,

In that the Tahoe National Forest DEIS documents are so large, November 26th, 2008 is not a reasonable cut off date for the public comment period.

In order for the public to respond and comment on the document, it needs to be extended by at least another 30 days.


Thank you for your time,

Kurt Schneider


Member of:

Blue Ribbon Coalition
Cal4 Wheel
Friends of the Rubicon
Friends of Eldorado National Forest
The Friends of Greenhorn
Friends of High Lakes
Kyburz Krawlerz
Pirate4x4.com Land-use Editor
CRAWL Magazine Land-use Editor
P.L.I.N.K.
The ancient and honorable order of E Clampus Vitus

[yotasmob]

Originally Posted by Kurtuleas

Short and to the point.

Took me 2 mins:

Dear Forest Supervisor,

In that the Tahoe National Forest DEIS documents are so large, November 26th, 2008 is not a reasonable cut off date for the public comment period.

In order for the public to respond and comment on the document, it needs to be extended by at least another 30 days.


Thank you for your time,

Kurt Schneider


Member of:

Blue Ribbon Coalition
Cal4 Wheel
Friends of the Rubicon
Friends of Eldorado National Forest
The Friends of Greenhorn
Friends of High Lakes
Kyburz Krawlerz
Pirate4x4.com Land-use Editor
CRAWL Magazine Land-use Editor
P.L.I.N.K.
The ancient and honorable order of E Clampus Vitus

Perfect.

[Kurtuleas]

I have already sent in several comments. If we get a comment thread going like we did for Eldo to post our comments in I will put them up.

Here's the problem, when I sent them in, I DID NOT get an automatic confermation reply like we did in Eldo. What's up with that? How do I know they were recieved?

The FS needs to set that up.

I sent this:

Dear Forest Supervisor,

During the Eldorado National Forest DEIS public comment period, comments sent in by e-mail were responded to with an automated response.

I have submitted several comments already to the TNF DEIS, and have received no such e-mail from the forest service. How am I to know that my comments are actually being submitted?

Please have an automated response so the public has a "receipt" and can tell if their comments have been received.

Thank you for your time,

Kurt Schneider

Member of:

Blue Ribbon Coalition
Cal4 Wheel
Friends of the Rubicon
Friends of Eldorado National Forest
Friends of High Lakes
Friends of Tahoe Forest Access
Kyburz Krawlerz
Pirate4x4.com Land-use Editor
CRAWL Magazine Land-use Editor
P.L.I.N.K.
The ancient and honorable order of E Clampus Vitus

[XJ_ranger]

Originally Posted by Kurtuleas

Thursday, October 9, 2008 Open House 3:00 pm - 5:00 pm., Orientation 6:30 p.m. to 8:30 p.m.
The Ridge Golf Course
2020 Golf Course Way
Auburn, CA

I plan on attending this one, on behalf of NAXJA, and as an avid 4x4 enthusiast.

[MercedesTech]

Originally Posted by Sewie

I mentioned this to Bebe on the phone, but we need to push to get a meeting (or meetings) closer to the Bay Area. There's a lot of wheelers down here but its near impossible to make it to one of these meetings after work.

The meeting they held in the Bay Area for Eldo was packed.

I second the bay area meetings. I just can't get out to places like Auburn after work. Especially if its during the week. I am more then willing to help and will do what I can, just let me know.